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TOPIC: Hinduism bias?

Hinduism bias? 3 years 6 months ago #75

First of all, let me congratulate you on the collection appearing on this site, it's quite impressive in size, and while numerous entries would do better with further citation, at the very least, there is enough material in every article for further research.

However, after reading every single article on your site, I noticed a disturbing pattern. A number of articles concerning supernatural phenomena, strongly related to the hindustic traditions, seem to be taken at face value, in opposition to any evidence.

In particular, my concern refers to the following three articles:
1) HOLY MAN IN INDIA DIDN’T EAT OR DRINK ANYTHING FOR 70 YEARS
2) SURYA NAMASKAR - KING OF EXERCISES
3) THE SUPERNATURAL FIRE YOGI OF TANJORE

All three of them lack vital information for the reader to form an educated understanding of the subject. Specifically, while all three claims are presented as facts, none of them is backed with evidence.

Being strongly opposed to misinformation myself, I took the liberty of presenting a number of sources, that, at the very least, doubt the claims made by the articles mentioned above.

1) Rationalists doubt claims made for 'Mataji' Prahalad Jani
"The Gujarat-Mumbai Rationalist Association (GMRA) has said that Jani's claims have never been proven, and no reports of his medical tests have been made public so far."

2) Vedic Period
As stated in this wikipedia article, the vedic period extends far less than 6000 years ago. Specifically, it explains that settlement took place just on 1000 BC, semi-nomadism being the norm before that. As a consequence, students couldn't be living pernanently with their teachers before that.
At the end of the HoF article, it is claimed that "Surya Namaskar is indeed the king of exercises". Is there an official recognition? Or is this just an euhemerism? If the latter is the case, then isn't this against sincerity and honesty as proclaimed in the About page?

3) The HoF article claims that Rambhau underwent "international standard medical testing". However, no such standard is ever presented in the rest of the article. Furthermore, as many sceptics on the subject have pointed out (example) at no point Rambhau is actually and clearly exposed to direct contact with fire, he is merely willing to stay really close to it (in fact, as shown in the documentary, his beard quite easily caught fire). As another sceptic pointed out in the same page, fire breathers and other fire performers routinely perform similar, or even more impressive feats, without need for supernatural aid.

Considering your mission statement in the "About" page...
We work honestly to bring out the truths and facts behind all kinds of online rumors and hoax messages.

I would like to ask:
1) Do you possess undeniable scientific evidence for the cases questioned above?
2) Is the author's religious or spiritual beliefs related to those articles?
3) Will you rectify the statements in those articles to reflect reliable scientific evidence (or lack thereof) ?

Thanks in advance for your response.
Last Edit: 3 years 6 months ago by Devant.
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Hinduism bias? 3 years 6 months ago #86

Hi Devant,

Thank you very much for the feedback.
We will reply for this very soon.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Devant

Hinduism bias? 3 years 5 months ago #113

Greetings again,
Any progress in the formation of an answer, siddhartha?
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Hinduism bias? 3 years 5 months ago #116

Dear Devant,

Thank you very much for the feedback. We are very happy that the information in the site is useful and informative. We feel like our mission is going in right direction. Also thank you for pointing out the pattern you have observed. We would like to clarify each of our justifications.

I am also sorry about the late reply; we were bit busy with some technical upgrades of the site and also with the other initiatives.

Before going to each of the article, I would like to explain bit about our ideology in analysis.
Our Ideology in analysis is to justify the claim based on available scientific facts, evidences, proofs, and theories. We believe that science is something which is continuously evolving and expanding its boundaries, and hence it is not perfect or complete.

Darwin theory of evolution was valid until Mendel introduced his theory of evolution.

Suppose that in year 1600, if someone claims that they can talk to someone who is 100 kms away or they can travel in the air, it is considered as supernatural, as telephone and plane are unknown at that time, once the concept is understood and experienced, it is no more supernatural. Our classification of genuine supernatural is unknown or undiscovered science.

We do consider any theories, which can explain the phenomenon or the claim, just as the standard scientists do.

Hinduism Biased:

In our discussion perspective Hinduism can be classified in two parts, one religion part, and other as knowledge / science developed by the Hindu society during ancient times. The yoga related to physical Health (Hatha yoga) comes under the second part.
We can say someone is biased if the justification does not have enough facts to supports it, and if the justification is based on emotional factors or beliefs.
I request you to go through this article, which is bit related to religion and also history.

There is a proposed theory by Professor P.N. Oak, saying that it was Lord Shiva temple before it was Taj Mahal, but the theory does not have enough proofs for it, and with available history records, and facts we could only conclude that it was built by Shah Jahan.
Until the hidden chambers and closed rooms are opened, more facts are unlikely to be uncovered, and the justification remains the same, which is unbiased in my opinion.

About the questions on articles:

1) HOLY MAN IN INDIA DIDN’T EAT OR DRINK ANYTHING FOR 70 YEARS :

The Rationalists Claims:
GMRA said that Jani's claims have never been proven. No reports of his medical tests have been made public so far.
Dr. Sudhir Shah clearly said that they have observed him for 10 days, and clarified that he has not eaten or excreted for entire 10 days. As Mr. Ilavazhagan mentioned, these studies are for the sake of DRDO studies, and not for the sake of public or for proving his claims, Most of the DRDO’s studies are maintained as secret, as it is related to defense research. We believe that it is the reason for not making them public.
Secretary of GMRA Keeran Trivedi said in a press release that Jani's claims have never been substantiated, and that such baseless superstitious claims should not be fuelled further.
This questions the rationalist’s mission. The doctors and scientists have found something and they are trying investigating it, and the so called Rationalists calling it baseless. This questions the rational approach of the group. Calling baseless to everything that they do not know or understand is not rational approach.
We rationalists have challenged Jani's claims in the past as well. US-based rationalist Deepak Patel had offered to get Jani checked in the US, but he has not responded.
The basic Hindu Sanyasa philosophy says not to run after money or name and fame, and many Sadhus follows the same. If anybody approaches them for the sake of knowledge, they might co-operate them to gain knowledge. If the seeker’s attitude is like “I challenge you, you prove yourself, and I will approve and certify your claims”, Sadhus would generally neglect them, because they don’t need and want to prove themselves to anybody.
It is to be noted that Dr Ilavazhagan, the key investigator in Jani's case, has categorically said in their press release that their observation of Jani was of 15 days, and they can't really comment on his claims of having gone without food and water for so many years.
This is standard scientific approach. Where, even if Mataji Prahalad Jani undergoes observation for a year, the conclusion would be only that he has not eaten anything for a year, and nothing can be commented on his past 70 years. But in general rational approach we can conclude that if his claim is right about the ability to survive without food, then the number of years may not be something that he would lie about.

The article has given unclear conclusion without analyzing actual facts, to make it appear as false.

2) SURYA NAMASKAR - KING OF EXERCISES
As stated in this wikipedia article, the vedic period extends far less than 6000 years ago. Specifically, it explains that settlement took place just on 1000 BC, semi-nomadism being the norm before that. As a consequence, students couldn't be living pernanently with their teachers before that.
It was an approximation made by some modern scientists about the Vedic period, and it differs considerably as per Hindu scripts. Indian civilization existed well before 5000 years. In the recent excavations the archeologists found lost city of Dwaraka in ocean bed, near Gujarat state. The archeologists describe that the city existed between 9000 years to 32,000 years ago, by which we can conclude that Vedic culture did existed well before 6000 years.
Please watch this video.


At the end of the HoF article, it is claimed that "Surya Namaskar is indeed the king of exercises". Is there an official recognition?
We do not consider compliments as official recognitions, unless it is claimed to be officially recognized. “Most beautiful horse” will not be considered as Guinness record or official government record, unless it is claimed in the story. “King of exercise” is compliment, but it was not claimed that it is officially recognized by any organization.

We have collected opinion from yoga and health experts by talking to them directly, who indeed accept that it is best exercise to keep fit physically. As the opinions collected were offline, the references were not mentioned.
“Surya Namaskar Exercise” is more related to health science, and not religion. It is verifiable, by practicing and experiencing the results.

Hatha yoga is science that emerged from Indian society, just like kung-fu from china. It is followed by people from around the world who are of different religion and from different countries. It cannot be called as part of Hindu religion; it is just emerged from Indian society, so there is no question of being Hindu biased on this.
“is this just an euhemerism? If the latter is the case, then isn't this against sincerity and honesty as proclaimed in the About page?”
We do consider some ancient scripts as valid sources of information and knowledge, and many historians, scientists, and archeologists also consider them as a key source.

In this case, we have archeological evidence too, and we do not see anything that is damaging our honesty and sincerity of our mission.

3) THE SUPERNATURAL FIRE YOGI OF TANJORE

I request you to watch the complete video here.
The HoF article claims that Rambhau underwent "international standard medical testing". However, no such standard is ever presented in the rest of the article
At the end of the documentary, the test results has been presented, and also opinions of some doctors / experts. We missed to consolidate the reports and present for reference.
Furthermore, as many sceptics on the subject have pointed out (example) at no point Rambhau is actually and clearly exposed to direct contact with fire, he is merely willing to stay really close to it (in fact, as shown in the documentary, his beard quite easily caught fire). As another sceptic pointed out in the same page, fire breathers and other fire performers routinely perform similar, or even more impressive feats, without need for supernatural aid
It is not fact that he is not directly exposed to fire. You can watch the total video.

In the documentary Rambhau has said that he is able to withstand, because of meditation. In normal state of mind, he is like everybody else and fire will certainly hurt him. He also said that if he loses his concentration, he would catch fire even at the time of performing yaga. At once instance (min 31.00) he did get hurt.

The heat distribution of fire (homa) would be generally like this.


Where the source and just above the source of fire will have maximum temperature (above 500 degree Celsius), and below the source the temperature is comparatively less. The fire performers make sure that they do not expose their body to high temperature points for more duration. They keep changing the contact point of fire with the body, which makes sure that they do not hurt. It is not possible to expose the naked skin to fire constantly for around 5 seconds. In the video it is clearly shown that he is just above the fire source for more than 30 seconds.

Questions:

1) Do you possess undeniable scientific evidence for the cases questioned above?

I hope that you got answer for this from above explanation. Science is only discovered knowledge. We do scientific analysis, at the same time, we may not deny theories that are not accepted by modern scientists, and in some case we may not rely on the beliefs of modern scientists, like in the case of scientists’ beliefs on “origins of life”.

2) Is the author's religious or spiritual beliefs related to those articles?


Founder’s religious and spiritual beliefs are the base for the site’s strategies and ideology. “Satyameva jayathy” (truth alone wins) is the slogan that we follow. The justifications are not based on emotions, but based on available facts. About the point “Hinduism biased”, I have explained with an example above and I hope that it suffices.

3) Will you rectify the statements in those articles to reflect reliable scientific evidence (or lack thereof)?

Yes, definitely. If we get sufficient facts or proofs to show what we have justified is wrong, we are ready to update our analysis. But it should be rational and not vague like this article. We cannot consider our analysis as wrong, just because some registered group of people “Doubt” the claims. They need to have proper explanation to their justification.

Regarding Rambhau Swami, some skeptics have pointed that the cloth is thermal shield, yes it could be a valid point. We tried searching for such high tech cotton cloth, which can withstand 1000 degree Fahrenheit, but found no evidence of existence of such technology.

We did try the experiment, with a candle, and with a small fire of wood to experience the degree heat, before believing in the theory suggested by Rambhau Swami, and also validated it with pundits who know about Vedas and they said it is possible. In this case, we can conclude that Rambhau Swami is wrong, if someone can stay as close as he does to the fire, for about 30 seconds, using any kind of tricks.

We thank you again for your valuable time, in analyzing and writing your opinions to us.

Regards,
Siddhartha.
Last Edit: 3 years 5 months ago by siddhartha.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
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